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wodgina6722
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« on: September 19, 2008, 07:27:41 AM » |
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It seems the body stores around 2000 calories of the stuff in muscles and the liver.
Anybody know how long it take to replenish glycogen on a diet which includes carbs (including energy drinks) compared to a diet which makes glycogen from protein eg raw carnivore zero carb?
Andrew
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Satya
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2008, 07:41:46 AM » |
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Hi Andrew. I have been pretty low carb for some time now. I don't workout like an Olympian, but then, I don't think all that repetitive motion day in and out is healthy. I don't buy into the energy drink business or needing immediate glycogen recovery. In fact, Art Devany says: " said it before and I say it again now: filling your muscles with glycogen is nonsense. I have pointed out how gene expression is altered by your activity and your stores of nutrients, among other things. And I have argued that body builders and runners and others who rush to refill their muscle with glycogen right after a work out are actually turning down the training response.
Now, here is an interesting article that measures gene expression and it shows that it is turned down when your muscles contain a lot of glycogen. You reduce the magnitude of the adaptive response to exercise if you are in a hurry, as so many body builders and runners are, to replenish your glycogen stores. They are not thinking at all about gene signaling and adaptation. They are in the linear thinking mode and must reason in a simple (dumb) inventory framework. Use up the glycogen and refill it right away."http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=301I think it has 3 parts. Damn I hope you continue at least low carb. You are not fit yet, right? Isn't that what you said? Give it time. I do heavy anaerobic threshold busting workouts about 1-2 hours duration, and I have survived. They are not long endurance feats, but then, are those really the types of workouts we evolved on? PS. I didn't answer your question, but I wish you luck finding answers. Please report back.
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rawrock2
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2008, 10:58:51 AM » |
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I don't workout like an Olympian, but then, I don't think all that repetitive motion day in and out is healthy. I don't buy into the energy drink business or needing immediate glycogen recovery. I don't buy into either and I'm a distance runner. I try to get in 3-4 miles a day and I just follow RAF. Works for me, I feel fine. (though I do have rotator cuff issues  )
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wodgina6722
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2008, 04:13:57 PM » |
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I don't buy into either and I'm a distance runner. I try to get in 3-4 miles a day and I just follow RAF. Works for me, I feel fine. (though I do have rotator cuff issues  ) A 3-4 mile (a day) run would not even make dent your glycogen reserves. So no recovery necessary. On the other hand 32 km run will if run around your anaerobic threshold will fully deplete glycogen reserves, especially day after day. That would be the real test on zero carb raw carnivore diet. Angelo thinks it's not possible I may agree.
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« Last Edit: September 19, 2008, 06:39:43 PM by wodgina6722 »
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wodgina6722
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2008, 04:35:20 PM » |
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Hi Andrew. I have been pretty low carb for some time now. I don't workout like an Olympian, but then, I don't think all that repetitive motion day in and out is healthy. I don't buy into the energy drink business or needing immediate glycogen recovery. In fact, Art Devany says: " said it before and I say it again now: filling your muscles with glycogen is nonsense. I have pointed out how gene expression is altered by your activity and your stores of nutrients, among other things. And I have argued that body builders and runners and others who rush to refill their muscle with glycogen right after a work out are actually turning down the training response.
Now, here is an interesting article that measures gene expression and it shows that it is turned down when your muscles contain a lot of glycogen. You reduce the magnitude of the adaptive response to exercise if you are in a hurry, as so many body builders and runners are, to replenish your glycogen stores. They are not thinking at all about gene signaling and adaptation. They are in the linear thinking mode and must reason in a simple (dumb) inventory framework. Use up the glycogen and refill it right away."http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=301I think it has 3 parts. Damn I hope you continue at least low carb. You are not fit yet, right? Isn't that what you said? Give it time. I do heavy anaerobic threshold busting workouts about 1-2 hours duration, and I have survived. They are not long endurance feats, but then, are those really the types of workouts we evolved on? PS. I didn't answer your question, but I wish you luck finding answers. Please report back. Hey Satya you did answer my question, in a way! Usual thinking, using glycogen means replenish glycogen and quickly,according to most athletes. Matbe we can adapt to replenishing our store/ maybe not as quickly but may have added benefits! I will continue zero carb even if it means I can't race to my full potential...I plan to see it through. No I'm not fit (in my terms) I have had very low reating heart rate in the past and pushed myself in endurance exercises to, I've always been good at sport especially strength and endurance and I'm not feeling that the moment. I plan to train both aerobically and anaerobically. Anaerobically I feel I still have a shit load in reserve which I can't wait to release, I've run good 10km times in the past.
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Satya
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2008, 09:53:01 PM » |
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I will continue zero carb even if it means I can't race to my full potential...I plan to see it through.
No I'm not fit (in my terms) I have had very low reating heart rate in the past and pushed myself in endurance exercises to, I've always been good at sport especially strength and endurance and I'm not feeling that the moment.
I plan to train both aerobically and anaerobically. Anaerobically I feel I still have a shit load in reserve which I can't wait to release, I've run good 10km times in the past.
Hey Andrew! Well, you do what you wish, but I for one would be thrilled if you at least gave zero carb a go for awhile, especially since you've spent months doing it now. You know, I have been very resistant to the idea of zero carb in my life until very recently. I think we go through stages when accepting new paradigms (much like stages of grief). I have been stuck in denial about it for some time (in case you didn't notice  ). But now that I am lowering plant consumption coming into autumn, I am really loving it, and I am breaking those nagging doubts about the viability of it. Anyway, so now you are like my hero, okay? Hee hee, no pressure or anything. Seriously, I think you can be powerful and endure in training zero carb. And really, there's only one way to find out. Andrew, you can win races zero carb! You can do it! Believe it! (Shoot, if I can learn taekwondo in my 40s, and get pretty darn good, then anything is possible.) If you doubt it for a minute, you won't ever try hard enough to reach your full potential. At least that is my experience. I just say, I can ace this ________________. Whatever it is you fill the blank in with. And please keep us in on your anaerobic training and how you feel. Journaling about this sort of training, and any tweaking of this or that will go a long way towards your success. Can you post resting and training heart rates and stuff like that from time to time? Best wishes for some good, hard training and racing success!
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wodgina6722
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2008, 09:53:07 AM » |
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Hey Andrew! Well, you do what you wish, but I for one would be thrilled if you at least gave zero carb a go for awhile, especially since you've spent months doing it now. You know, I have been very resistant to the idea of zero carb in my life until very recently. I think we go through stages when accepting new paradigms (much like stages of grief). I have been stuck in denial about it for some time (in case you didn't notice  ). But now that I am lowering plant consumption coming into autumn, I am really loving it, and I am breaking those nagging doubts about the viability of it. Anyway, so now you are like my hero, okay? Hee hee, no pressure or anything. Seriously, I think you can be powerful and endure in training zero carb. And really, there's only one way to find out. Andrew, you can win races zero carb! You can do it! Believe it! (Shoot, if I can learn taekwondo in my 40s, and get pretty darn good, then anything is possible.) If you doubt it for a minute, you won't ever try hard enough to reach your full potential. At least that is my experience. I just say, I can ace this ________________. Whatever it is you fill the blank in with. And please keep us in on your anaerobic training and how you feel. Journaling about this sort of training, and any tweaking of this or that will go a long way towards your success. Can you post resting and training heart rates and stuff like that from time to time? Best wishes for some good, hard training and racing success! I've been resistent to change as well BIG TIME, I thought that diet was the cure all for everything, I concentrated way to much on diet when in reality I needed to change my life in other ways, eg procrastination/stay fit etc etc. It's bloody hard to change some things and I guess I kinda reached a stage too. Heehee 'no pressure or anything' yeah it makes sense to me that you can be both powerfull and have stamina on '0' carb. Look at what the inuit could endure. I believe that recovery time may be a HUGE factor in this zero carb deal. Especially after some of my recent experiences above anerobic threshold. Have a huge training session one day then do nothing for a few days so your glycogen levels can be replenished. This makes sense in terms of killing a woolly mamooth and then feasting for a week. Still early days and I really don't know what I'm talking about!
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« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 09:58:23 AM by wodgina6722 »
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Squall
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2008, 12:52:08 PM » |
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I believe that recovery time may be a HUGE factor in this zero carb deal. Especially after some of my recent experiences above anerobic threshold. Have a huge training session one day then do nothing for a few days so your glycogen levels can be replenished. This makes sense in terms of killing a woolly mamooth and then feasting for a week.
Still early days and I really don't know what I'm talking about! I think you definitely know what you're talking about, lol. I've read some articles that would tend to agree with you. They basically posit that paleolithic man would have been more adapted to short, extremely powerful bursts of energy rather than extremely long, low power trickles (like marathon running). Its far more likely that big game hunting would have followed the former scenario, and most likely not the latter. Just one comparison between a long-distance runner and a sprinter does it for me. Most sprinters are very well built and seem full of vitality. Marathon runners, by contrast, look kind of meek to me, almost sickly ... and damn skinny. Anyway, I've read that paleolithic man's exercise regimen consisted of hunting, dancing, and lots of rest in between. I know dancing sounds weird, but some writers believe that it was very common. Maybe good for stress relief, or maybe important for the community's reproduction rate ... who knows.
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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd.
- Bertrand Russell
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wodgina6722
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2008, 01:59:09 PM » |
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I think you definitely know what you're talking about, lol. I've read some articles that would tend to agree with you. They basically posit that paleolithic man would have been more adapted to short, extremely powerful bursts of energy rather than extremely long, low power trickles (like marathon running). Its far more likely that big game hunting would have followed the former scenario, and most likely not the latter.
Just one comparison between a long-distance runner and a sprinter does it for me. Most sprinters are very well built and seem full of vitality. Marathon runners, by contrast, look kind of meek to me, almost sickly ... and damn skinny.
Anyway, I've read that paleolithic man's exercise regimen consisted of hunting, dancing, and lots of rest in between. I know dancing sounds weird, but some writers believe that it was very common. Maybe good for stress relief, or maybe important for the community's reproduction rate ... who knows.
Sprinters look better than marathon runners. Marathon runners put a lot of stress on their bodies 42km in just over 2 hours! I doubt our ancestors were putting in those sort of efforts there was no need to. It seems that humans were generally 'persistence hunters' running or walking within their areobic threshold over long distances to exhaust their prey and yes we can also put in more powerful bursts of energy maybe not as fast as our prey but we can usually win over a greater distance. Ever tried to out run a dog? over a small distance the dog will win but over larger distances the dog will tire. It's funny why humans dance, I've always wondered what makes me want to get up and dance. Does it give us chance to show off our quality genes to the opposite sex? I don't think so all the time, look at mosh pits and 'men's only tribal dances'
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TylerDurden
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2008, 04:47:11 PM » |
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Some acquaintances of mine went to the Yemen and saw the men dancing around, without their women present, while shooting into the air with their rifles - now, I loathe dancing, but this sounds like more my kind of thing!
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"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
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