Raw Kyle you talk about how vegetarians/vegans talk about their hatred to cooked food and meat.. Its probably because there are many who have experienced healing from disease and feeling a lot better when switching from the SAD diet, so they have strong emotional convictions that its the right thing for themselves - and for everyone else for that matter. That's the nature of human beings, when we are convinced of something because we have experienced it ourselves and have strong emotions associated to it, we tend to want to spread our beliefs to the people around us

There are probably hundreds of diets or diet variations out there and some people do better on one diet others do better on another.  We all look different on the inside, just as we look different on the outside. This is a fact. Organ sizes and shapes can vary enormously between individuals. Amounts of nutrients people need vary. People's metabolic pathways even differ. This is biochemical individuality. There are many books written on this topic..

So why have raw vegans as enemies? At least they are not main stream as SAD eaters who haven't even given the health/diet issue a thought.Who are obese and have no idea why.

I think some people can do well on a no meat diet. I've seen many vegans who look good, have strong bodies, good physical condition. More than SAD eaters that's for sure. And who cares if some of them look think?

I agree that there is a lot of dogma going on but it again depends on the people. There are dogmatists following every diet.. Many say they are doing well on a diet when they actually aren't.. I think this might be the main problem in raw veganism, there are too many people who lack self-honesty. Some are eventually honest, but often only years down the road. The worst people are those who have only learned/read about a topic and then are preaching it like crazy even though they haven't tried it or it isn't working for them. I guess the problem is a failure to realize and accept that we are all different people with different bodies. One prescribed diet will never work for an entire population exactly because of this reason.

Hi Seeker,

You are right on the money about vegan honesty and dogma.  I tried vegan too while helping a cancer patient, I did the same raw vegan diet. Raw vegan is a good temporary thing while healing or detoxing... but I soon discovered, it's a temporary thing, it is not for the long term... I was honest... raw vegan didn't taste good and I was getting too thin.  I only lasted for 2 months because I was honest?  I wasn't dogmatic?

Also did fruitarian.  My teacher was great... but even from his point of view, if fruits vanished, he would eat raw meat... not cooked meat.  I only lasted 2 months on fruitarian... got too cold and too thin.

Within raw paleo I'm still tryin out things... beginning with wai diet... it was getting boring so I added raw animal foods... cooked homo optimus diet and pork got my interest but the experiment turned out bad bad pork and bad cooked food... I went back to rpd... tried cow, carabao and goat raw milk bad too... now gunning for low carb high fat on raw paleo... let's see...

no dogma, no pride, just straight forward experimentation and honest reporting... something raw vegan does to you... I felt that convinced dogma when I began raw vegan and raw fruitarian diets... but you just face reality at when you hit your head on the wall that people need animal foods to thrive.

Some raw vegans just take years before they run out of gas.

Keep in mind that vegans kill as well. Plants are living things are they not?
Just because they don't fit in our paradigm of what is "intelligent" or "sentient" doesn't mean shit.
Life sustains life, and I choose to see it as a beautiful circle of exchanging life forces rather that a cold hard fact of this world.

Plants may not fit our paradigm of what is intelligent or sentient, but they do seem to be incapable of suffering in the way that animals can, which does seem a worthwhile distinction (though I do leave open the possibility, unlikely as I think that it is, that plants do suffer and we just haven't been able to determine this or communicate it).  Also, there are plenty of examples of plants that require destruction in order to thrive and pass on to the next generation.  Fruits are an example, as are the regenerative nature of grasses that need to be grazed.  An even better example are the species that are dependent upon wildfires to burn them before they can release their seeds or have their landscape rejuvenated.

I absolutely see your point about the circle of life and I accept that intellectually 100%, but that doesn't make it easy for me to get rid of the part that wishes it were otherwise.  Of course, I don't spend much time or energy on these wishes, but that does not make them go away entirely.  Maybe it's just something hardwired into my biology or maybe it is acculturation, but I suspect that I will always have more sympathy for the death of the tasty, tasty dog, cow or chicken that could have experienced life and emotions for many, many more years then I will for the near catatonic carrot that was near the end of its life cycle when consumed anyway.

As for my personal karma or philosophy about killing animals...

I will kill animals that threaten my family... (for example, I hear a crocodile is loose in a creek near us, a crazed rabid dog is loose in the neighborhood)

I will kill animals that are pests and threaten my family... (mosquitoes, rats, cockroaches)

I will kill animals for food... (go fishing just what my family will eat, go hunting just what my family will eat, slaughter what will be eaten or sold for food)

But I feel it is not right to kill animals for mere "sport" like hunting for the sake of killing or displaying the stuffed animal as a trophy.  Hunt or fish only what you will eat... there are some wasteful hunters who will bird hunt killing inedible birds just for the sake of killing; or fishing catch and release... what's the point?

But this is just me.