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avalon
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« on: November 19, 2008, 10:06:25 PM » |
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27774614 An Arizona researcher found 40 percent of meat products tested from three national chain stores were contaminated with bacteria normally associated with severe hospital infections. Federal health officials, however, say more study is needed to determine whether C. diff is transmitted through food. Best wishes, Avalon
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goodsamaritan
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 10:23:26 PM » |
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This is why it is important to learn how to do the wet marketing yourself. Ever since I got into raw foods beginning with vegan, I always brought along our cook with me so I can learn from her discerning eyes. With fruits, I bring along our maids who grew up in provincial farms... they grew up with an eye for what is fresh... many times I would get caught buying un-fresh produce or sea food. But that's okay. Learn from your mistakes. Some of us, like me were born and raised as city slickers and were not taught basic marketing skills. But we can learn. It also pays to befriend your butcher or the fish vendor. He will teach you what you need to know to be able to buy the good stuff. And feel free to taste before you buy. As for buying frozen produce. This is a matter of trust and taste. And complain if you feel the meat is bad. I live in the big city and there are big markets with lots of choices, so sometimes being in the big city has its advantages. I have no experience with mail order shopping for meats. |
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TylerDurden
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 10:28:23 PM » |
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Look, all raw meat is "contaminated with bacteria", as with all living things, objects etc. It's silly to get worked up about it. Aajonus has pointed out that the environment is more important than the so-called "pathogen". This fits in with my own experience:- for example, I used to have very severe stomach-aches/food-poisoning on a number of occasions when I ate cooked shellfish. I can only recall one instance where I up-chucked some aged raw shellfish(raw fish eggs), early on in the diet, and that was basically because I wasn't used to the stuff, and, unlike with the cooked shellfish-experiences, this didn't give me any digestive pain, as such.
As regards contaminated meats, the real problem occurs when one cooks the meat, destroying all the bacteria, and then storing it for long periods. While in storage, other kinds of bacteria are then able to enter the meats, of a different kind to the natural ones found in meat, and that's when the problem occurs - indeed, it's unsurprising that the most serious food-poisoning cases occur after eating canned, preheated foods. I wouldn't be surprised, too, if the combination of bacteria and the toxins in cooked-meats makes for far more serious problems, over time.
Lastly, this sort of discussion should really go into the Hot Topics forum, even if it isn't as controversial as some past subjects. I'll do that now.
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"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
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avalon
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2008, 06:45:58 AM » |
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Why controversial?
I would think if there were any dangers, cooking would kill the bacteria. Sure storing wrong and all of the above can contribute, but I feel it's always good to know what's going on. It's quite possible, with the way things work, that meat might become more and more contaminated, so choosing to eat raw could pose more health risks.
I'm familiar with Wai's, AV's and RawPaleo takes on 'RAW' - Bacteria good- and I do continue to eat raw eggs and Sushi but it's always good to know what's going on.
Those lucky enough to live off the land and eat fresh kill, that's a different story...
Meat aint what it used to be.
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TylerDurden
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2008, 06:59:33 AM » |
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The point I made is that the combination of bacteria and the toxins in cooked-meats makes things worse. Eating aged, raw meat is fine, by comparison, and certainly the Eskimos had no problems with it, nor did the Chinese with their century eggs etc. I'll grant that there are well-known issues with grainfed,intensively-farmed meats causing problems(increasein e-coli strains in grainfed meats?) but that has nothing to do with the bacteria but far more to do with the fact that the animals in question have been fed on an unhealthy diet, no more than that.
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"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
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boxcarguy07
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2008, 07:14:05 AM » |
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Yeah, I seriously doubt the study included grass-fed meat, so it really doesn't apply because people here for the most part only eat grass-fed. I would never eat commercial meat raw, gross  |
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goodsamaritan
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2008, 09:46:09 PM » |
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That study was done using commercially farmed meats and commercial supermarkets. Absolutely non-paleo stuff.
This afternoon I was a the wet market buying my freshly killed beef which I had missed for almost 1 week. I make sure to tell the butcher that I would like a clean plastic bag on the weighing scale so he can put the beef slice there because I do not bother washing it after he slices it.
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avalon
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2008, 11:39:37 PM » |
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The point I made is that the combination of bacteria and the toxins in cooked-meats makes things worse. Eating aged, raw meat is fine, by comparison, and certainly the Eskimos had no problems with it, nor did the Chinese with their century eggs etc. I'm not sure I agree but perhaps I just don't understand. The Eskimos cook quite a bit- traditionally eating their meats in soups. I'm not sure I've ever heard that cooking makes toxins and bacteria worse. I do know about HCAs and that eating well done meats increases stomach cancer risk x3. Can you point me to a study or page that talks about what you mean? I'd like to know. Xeta |
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« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 12:08:07 AM by TylerDurden »
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TylerDurden
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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2008, 12:10:44 AM » |
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I seriously doubt there's a study done on this, given that food-science is so new. It's partly based on logic and my own experience:- (ie if you feed an organism with garbage(such as cattle being fed on grain or bacteria feeding on the toxins created by cooking/heat) then that organism is going to be unhealthy and diseased with negative consequencs for anyone eating that organism. For example, I've found that the sweat I exude after being on rawpalaeo is less smelly than in pre-raw diet days, which would indicate that the bacteria are producing less toxic, less smelly byproducts than in previous, pre-raw times. Plus, obviously heat kills the natural bacteria originally within the meats, allowing "dangerous/inappropriate" bacteria to enter the meat from elsewhere - that's a common point made in raw circles. Here's Aajonus with some interesting points re the whole theory of food-poisoning:- http://www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/p78.htm |
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"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
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avalon
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« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2008, 01:37:51 AM » |
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Plus, obviously heat kills the natural bacteria originally within the meats, allowing "dangerous/inappropriate" bacteria to enter the meat from elsewhere - that's a common point made in raw circles. Okay, I buy that cooking kills natural, possibly beneficial bacteria. No argument there. But if you eat the food say as the inuit have in stews and soups- I don't see that as allowing "dangerous/inappropriate" bacteria to enter the meat/stew/soup. If you're talking cooked food that hasn't been eaten and is left in the fridge I get that the original bacteria is no longer there and new bacteria from say 'elsewhere', may come home to play. But still ehh I don't know...  Best wishes, Avalon  |
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