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Author Topic: Cancer Nutrition addressed via Raw Paleolithic Diet Super Meals  (Read 526 times)
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Satya
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2008, 06:14:56 AM »

How about trying some raw beef tongue if it can be located?  I like Tyler's idea of like curing like, and certainly the tongue has connective tissues and elements for a healthy tongue.

Best wishes.  You are wonderful to help him in this regard. 
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lex_rooker
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2008, 09:16:24 AM »

As I understand it, not all, but most cancer cells depend on glucose and simple sugars as their fuel source as they have very few mitochondria and therefore can't utilize fatty acids or ketones as fuel.  Changing diet to reduce the intake of carbohydrates and protein in an effort to reduce blood glucose levels can slow cancer but in and of itself will probably not stop it.  It's one of those things you can prevent through creating a hostile environment for cancer cells through diet but once you have it the body must create some glucose for critical systems and therefore glucose will be available to nourish cancer cells also.

One treatment that was done back in the 1920's and 1930's was Coley's Toxins.  Dr Coley discovered that often cancer patients who contracted a high fever late in the course of the disease had a spontaneous remission and the cancer never returned - even after 30 to 40 years.  He developed an injectable toxin that would produce a high fever without actually adding to the diseased state and found that about 30% of his patients experienced the spontaneous remission.  At the time no one could explain how or why this worked at all and the medical profession abandoned it in favor of latest high tech radiation treatments that were just coming out.

The rather inconsistent results were a big problem with Coley's methods and no one could explain why it worked in some cases but not others.  There is/was a doctor who looked a Coley's research and believed he found the answer.  All most all the patients that had full spontaneous remissions were starving to death at the time of the treatment.  Most hadn't been able to consume any food for 10 days or so and in those days there was no constant IV drip of sugar water like there is today to keep blood glucose up.  His theory is that the body has limited resources to create glucose when starving.  If a fever is added into the mix the body's metabolism kicks into high gear - including the cancer cells- all of which call for massive amounts of fuel to maintain the body's frantic efforts to support the fever.  Almost all cells within the body can utilize fatty acids or ketones which would be in abundant supply from the 10 day "fasting" condition.  Cancer cells on the other hand, must have glucose to survive and when the body has no resources to create the necessary blood glucose at the rate the cancer cells need them under the high fever condition, the Cancer cells die.

Coley indicated that if there are large amounts of cancerous tissue, especially in lung cancer patients, and if the high fever treatment is working, then someone must be in attendance to suction away necrotic cancerous tissue as it disintigrates or the patient may die from drowning in a liquid mass of dead cancer cells.

The fever must be very high (104-105 deg F) and sustained for 10 to 12 hours to really whip the metabolism into a frenzy state such that the demand for glucose by the cancer cells far exceeds the body's ability to produce it over sufficient time so as to starve the cells.  I find it interesting that one of the stated reasons for abandoning Coley's research was that a fever of this magnitude and duration was dangerous for the patient.  They felt it better to let the patient die a sure death from the encroaching cancer than to risk the patient dying a few days earlier from a fever that could actually have totally cured them.

Do a Google search on Coley's Toxins and see if you think there is any value there in your case.

Lex

 
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TylerDurden
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2008, 06:42:13 PM »

How about trying some raw beef tongue if it can be located?  I like Tyler's idea of like curing like, and certainly the tongue has connective tissues and elements for a healthy tongue.

Best wishes.  You are wonderful to help him in this regard. 

They can't get halal beef(tongue. But goat tongue would be an option.
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"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
Za
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2008, 10:17:22 PM »

Lex,
I was fascinated by your account of Dr Coley's findings, thank you. I had often wondered why my thyroid cancer seemed to disappear after a 10 day fast. Now I have some idea. You are a valuable resource.
-Za
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Raw Kyle
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 08:17:57 PM »

Lex, question about glucose dependent cancer cells. Don't cells use mitochondria to derive energy (ATP) from fat and protein just the same as from glucose? How I learned it in my basic biology and later courses was that the energy production occurs in the mitochondria and that for molecules other than glucose they are just thrown into the cycle of energy production at different points along the way.
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Kristelle
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2008, 07:11:12 AM »

If I recall correctly, cancer cells don't have mitochondria and for this reason, depend on glucose exclusively.
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Raw Kyle
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2008, 01:46:11 AM »

That's the second time I've heard that, but who here can tell me how the cell derives energy from glucose without mitochondria?
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 07:44:39 AM »

That's the second time I've heard that, but who here can tell me how the cell derives energy from glucose without mitochondria?

Hi.. A little old post I know but just to answer your question:

Cellular respiration is a three step metabolic pathway and is the way a cell gets its energy to survive/do anything. A cell can get its energy from glucose or fat.

The first stage of cellular respiration is where glucose turns into pyruvate, also producing ATP (energy). This does not require oxygen or a mitochondria. The last two stages (pyruvate entering mitochondria, being metabolized into acetyl CoA and further into CO2 and water, also producing ATP on the way) both require oxygen and a mitochondria.

Fatty acids are broken down into acetyl CoA directly replacing the role of pyruvate from glucose metabolism (the first step of cellular respiration , glycolysis , which fatty acids cannot take part of, only produces very little energy compared to the last 2 stages).

Glucose can provide a little energy to a cell without oxygen or a mitochondria, while fatty acids require both oxygen and a mitochondria to provide any energy at all to that cell. 


See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycolysis and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_respiration
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 03:54:08 AM »

By the way this is also the reason why yeast utilizes glucose for energy and not fatty acids: yeast respires anaerobically (without oxygen). That's my understanding of it...
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Raw Kyle
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2008, 11:42:03 PM »

I see what you're saying, I think I mixed it up in my head before. I thought it was being said that fat could be metabolized without mitochondria, not glucose. So the cancer cells can get the glycolisis energy to keep growing is what the issue is? You'd think that would slow them down quite a bit.
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