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Author Topic: Pemmican  (Read 5096 times)
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yon yonson
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2009, 08:57:00 AM »

i haven't actually made pemmican with organ meats, but i plan on doing it pretty soon (well a mix of dried organs like heart and liver with dried jerky). i'll let you know how it goes. also, i've dried liver before and it actually worked out pretty well. it made it taste better and made it a lot easier to eat. need to get some heart now though
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PaleoPhil
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2009, 08:30:14 PM »

...This is probably far more than you ever wanted to know, but others on this forum may have similar questions and concerns.

Lex
Wow! After this and Lex's other posts and his pemmican guide, I think Lex may have demonstrated himself to be the world's foremost pemmican expert. :-)

I tried US Wellness' tallow alone and with meat some more, Lex, and it's not as strong-flavored as I initially thought (and I'm also rapidly getting used to it). I'm back to thinking that the very strong flavor of their pemmican comes from both the fat and the jerky. I made my second attempt at making jerky and fared much better this time. It tasted better even than yours did, but I think that's likely due my using less fat (I haven't completely adapted to eating tallow yet) and to my taste buds adapting more since I ate yours than anything. What I did differently:

> I made sure to THOROUGHLY dry the jerky, so that it breaks when twisted (that detail helped explain the required level of dryness a lot)
> I THOROUGHLY blenderized the jerky into very fine, tiny shreds (the blender is too weak to turn it into powder)
> I added the fat gradually, and stopped as soon as the pemmican reached an eye-appealing, juicy, brownie-like consistency (less fat than is generally recommended--again, because I haven't adapted completely to it yet)

I think the gradual adaptation approach has worked for me, and may work for other people who don't like grass-fed tallow at first. Even though I didn't like pemmican at first, it didn't taste powdery at all to me--it was more of a problem of a musky, beefy, gamey flavor and smell for me. I like gamey, but wasn't used to THAT strong a gamey taste. Adding the fat takes away any powderiness from the shredded jerky. The first time I tried US Wellness pemmican I nearly upchucked it back up and couldn't imagine how I'd ever get used to it. Now I sorta like my home-made pemmican. I wonder what the US Wellness would taste like to me now. Maybe I was too hard on them, or maybe mine really is that much better tasting--I'm not sure. I have adapted much faster than I expected.

The only animal fat I was initially able to eat raw is the creamy long-bone marrow fat, so pemmican fills an important transitional niche for me. I can also now handle the flavor and mouth feel of a little cold tallow (it was a huge turn-off at first--it's strange how the film it left in my mouth was at first disgusting and now is neutral--almost pleasant). Maybe some day I'll be able to eat raw suet and intramuscular fat, but I still gag on it at this point and have a little trouble digesting it. As with DelFuego, pemmican seems more digestible for me at this stage.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 08:39:50 PM by PaleoPhil » Logged

> "Medicine improved exponentially when the tinkering barber surgeons took over from the high theorists. They just went with what worked, irrespective of why it worked." -Nassim Taleb
> "no one would touch this type of diet unless they'd tried everything else and this diet alone worked" -T.D.
> Tinkering with dairy & gluten elimination worked for me. I found a theory that explained it (Eaton's Paleolithic nutrition), which pointed me toward more tinkering, with more success. -Me
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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2009, 06:14:41 AM »


> I made sure to THOROUGHLY dry the jerky, so that it breaks when twisted (that detail helped explain the required level of dryness a lot)


Maybe some day I'll be able to eat raw suet and intramuscular fat, but I still gag on it at this point and have a little trouble digesting it. As with DelFuego, pemmican seems more digestible for me at this stage.

Agreed, thoroughly dried is the way.

I still wonder about the taste of the tallow, but then all I can get is grain-finished fat, and the hide fat tastes better to me than the kidney fat.
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2009, 06:10:33 AM »

I have noticed that eating pemmican makes my teeth over-sensitive. To the point that drinking water (or breathing fresh air) hurts my teeth.

Anybody has experienced the same symptom, or have an idea of the reason (overproduction of HCL) ?
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2009, 07:47:03 PM »

For those who have not read it elsewhere, the word is that the correct ratio of weight of tallow to powdered jerky is 64% to 36%.
This gives us the recommended 80% calories from fat, and more (or adequate) energy.

Lack of energy has been a problem for me with the half-of-each pemmican.

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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2009, 07:03:05 AM »

    I know coconut oil is looked down on here because the inferiority in nutrition of vegetable derived fat, but I'm thinking of trying it.  The reason being is that it doesn't have to be heated.  I'm very leary about rendering tallow.  I'm thinking of making a pemmican by drying liver and mixing with the oil.  I suppose it would be too soft in Summer but a fairly decent once in a while snack in Wintertime.

    I want to thank everyone who wrote about their pemmican experiences.  I've never tried it, and reading everything you wrote is helping me decide to try.
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2009, 07:50:06 AM »

    I know coconut oil is looked down on here because the inferiority in nutrition of vegetable derived fat, but I'm thinking of trying it.  The reason being is that it doesn't have to be heated. 

You will regret it. Malnutrition is certain with coconut oil.

Pemmican made with tallow is proven good, and the endless drivel of fat-phobic Tyler/Geoff is best ignored.
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2009, 10:19:43 AM »

coconut oil has already been heated by the time you buy it
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lex_rooker
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2009, 11:13:27 AM »

For those who have not read it elsewhere, the word is that the correct ratio of weight of tallow to powdered jerky is 64% to 36%.
This gives us the recommended 80% calories from fat, and more (or adequate) energy.

Lack of energy has been a problem for me with the half-of-each pemmican.

William,
What makes 64/36 any more "correct" than 50/50- or 45/65 for that matter?  Many of us find that 80% of calories is way to much and we do much better on 65% to 75% of calories as fat.  To think that there is some magic "correct" ratio of fat to lean is silly.  The Native Americans who made pemmican didn't have scales and other high tech stuff to achieve some perfect ratio.  They mixed the fat into the powdered lean until it wouldn't absorb any more.  The actual ratio varied all over the place. 

Also the natural fat content of raw meat varies considerably depending on the time of year and the amount of food available to the animal.  In the late winter/early spring animals would have been very lean.  In the late summer/early fall they would have had a high percentage of fat.

If it had to be so "scientific" none of us would be here today because our ancestors just ate meat and fat based on its availability until they were satified.  If they were short fat then they would start to crave it.  In other words, just like thirst, they let their bodies tell them what was correct.

The idea that 80% of calories as fat is somehow "perfect" is pure nonsense.

Lex
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lex_rooker
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« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2009, 11:23:59 AM »

    I know coconut oil is looked down on here because the inferiority in nutrition of vegetable derived fat, but I'm thinking of trying it.  The reason being is that it doesn't have to be heated.  I'm very leery about rendering tallow.  I'm thinking of making a pemmican by drying liver and mixing with the oil.  I suppose it would be too soft in Summer but a fairly decent once in a while snack in Wintertime.

If you do this you will likely end up with severe nutritional deficiencies if you eat it for very long.  Coconut oil is just that - oil.  You need a highly saturated animal fat or you may as well just buy the 'nutrition bars' at your local supermarket - as there would be little difference.  To believe that coconut oil isn't heated or processed using solvents, and that this some how makes a 'non-food' (something we shouldn't be eating at all under any conditions) better than a heated good food is being a bit naive.

Also, pure liver is powerful stuff.  You can actually get ill eating just pure liver.  Pemmican should be made primarily from muscle meats.  Organ meats are not needed and should be kept to a very small percentage if they are used at all.

Lex
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