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Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 6566 times)
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lex_rooker
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« on: June 14, 2008, 01:54:49 AM »

Here is a graph of my baseline blood glucose curve before changing the fat ratio.  I will add an updated graph soon for comparison.

Below the graph are also links to PDF documents showing my Blood Test Results for 2007 and 2008.  For the 2007 results I had been eating a 68%fat / 32%protein diet for a over 1 year.  The 2008 results I had been eating 80%fat / 20%protein for about 6 weeks prior to the test.  Almost all numbers improved.  Everything has improved dramatically since I started this adventure over 3 years ago, but especially since I started eating Slanker's grass-fed beef a bit over 2 years ago.  In 2005 cholesterol was 230, HDL/LDL ratio was 4.7, fasting glucose was 140.  From the blood tests you can see the on going improvement from eating grass fed beef for over 2 years.

Below I've added a PDF of my current 24 hour BG curve with comments.  Compared to the initial curve it is a rather dramatic change.


* Lex 24hr Blood Glucose Average.jpg (107.9 KB, 640x438 - viewed 1039 times.)
* 2007_07 Lab Results.pdf (215.53 KB - downloaded 38 times.)
* 2008_07 Lab Results.pdf (450.5 KB - downloaded 50 times.)
* BG_AVG_071708.pdf (17.15 KB - downloaded 19 times.)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 12:49:01 PM by lex_rooker » Logged
lex_rooker
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2008, 01:55:27 AM »

A few months ago I was prompted to set up an experiment to see what would happen if I changed the ratio of fat to protein in my diet.  For the past several years my diet has been meat and fat only with a ratio (by % of calories) of 68% fat to 32% protein. My weight has been stable at about 160 lbs for almost 2 years.

I set a base line of Blood Glucose and urine Ketones and came up with the following results:
BG was about 95 just before my single afternoon meal
BG rose to about 120 over a 2-3 hour period after the meal
BG dropped to 106 and stayed there for about 18 hours
BG dropped to 95 about 2 hours before meal time

Ketones always measured between zero and Trace.

As of June 1st I changed the fat ratio of my food to 80% fat and 20% protein by adding addition suet to my meat mix.  I have a commercial fat analyzer used by meat markets to test the fat content of their ground beef so I'm able to measure the fat content of my mix fairly precisely.  After 2 weeks on this new diet I have the following results:

BG is now 80 just before my single afternoon meal
BG rises to about 96 over a 2-3 hour period after the meal
BG drops to about 87 by bed time
BG is usually about 80 upon arising in the morning
BG jumps to about 90 about an hour after arising
BG slowly drops to 80 and stays there for an hour or so before I eat.

Ketones have jumped sharply to Moderate (middle color band) and on occasion to Large (next to last color bad)
I also dropped 2 lbs in weight even though total calories have remained the same.

This morning for the first time my morning BG dropped to 75 and then rose to 80 about an hour after arising so it is clear that things are in dynamic flux.  It will be interesting to see what happens over time.

Also, you'll notice that my BG jumps several points in the morning even though I haven't eaten anything and won't eat again for another 9 or 10 hours.  The theory for this is that either the liver is dumping glucose to meet the needs of new muscle activity as I begin to move around for the day, or that the adrenals are signaling the body to break down body fat for the same purpose.  I expect that it is the breakdown of body fat as this would cause the ketones to rise (which they have) and release of glucose from the liver would not cause this rise in ketones.

I put this first post in the General Discussion area so people would see it.  I'll be making future posts on this subject to the Journal area.
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2008, 10:26:13 AM »

What prompted this experiment in the first place was Gary Taubes lecture on obesity which can be found here:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=21216

During this lecture Taubes talks about what makes us fat.  He pointed out that scientists have known for some time that fat can't be stored unless alpha-glycerol-phosphate is available to create the trigliceride that can be stored in fat cells.  Alpha-glycerol-phosphate is created when carbohydrates are metabolized in the presence of insulin.  Insulin is primarily driven by eating carbs.  Pretty much it's

Eating Carbs creates insulin - insulin metabolizes glucose - alpha-G-phospahte is created - liver uses a-g-p to create triglicerides - triglicerides are then moved into fat cells.  Bottom line no a-g-p no fat can be stored, at least that's the theory.

Taubes also stated that 58% of protein can be converted to glucose, but didn't say how or when this would happen.  If this is true, then too much protein in the diet could cause a rise in insulin thereby creating a-g-p and causing fat storage.

My experience was that when I started eating this way I started with a higher fat content in my meat.  Initially my weight dropped to about 150 lbs but then I got lazy and stopped adding the fat to my mix.  Over several months my weight increased to 160 and then stabilized at that level.

I decided to test Taubes theory.  If he is correct, since I don't eat any carbs my only source for glucose is from protein.  If I reduce the protein and raise the fat to bring the calories back up, then less glucose would be produced and I should again lose weight even though calories stay the same.  Less protein means less glucose created, hence less a-g-p all leading to less fat.

Still early yet but this seems to be working just as Taubes expected.  My average blood glucose had been reduce by about 20 points since I made the change 2 weeks ago.  I've lost 2 lbs in 14 days.  Ketones went from less than Trace to Moderate which shows that body fat is being consumed.  I have no idea how far this will go but intend to stick with it for several months at least and maybe forever.

There is a minimum amount of protein that the body will always need and I can't go below that amount or my health will suffer.  This amount is between .8g and 1.4g of protein per KG of lean body weight.  for me this is about 85g protein per day.  This will produce about 50g of glucose and my final stable weight should be based on this amount.

Part of what was not clear in Taubes lecture, and no one else seemed to know, was if some portion of all protein eaten is converted to glucose or if this only happens in a metabolic emergency. The infamous “Bear” (Stanley Owsley) said this conversion only happened in metabolic emergency.  I’m finding that this is not true.

What I'm finding is that all protein eaten is converted to glucose at the rate of about 58%.  This was demonstrated to me by the drop in blood glucose levels when I changed my diet from 32% protein to less than 20% protein.

My original protein consumption was about 150g/day.  This converted to 87g of glucose and you could see my blood glucose level rise about 25 points over a three hour period and then it would decline to an average resting value over the next 18 hours or so before finally dropping to the original starting level a couple of hours before I ate my next daily meal.

When I cut the protein to 90g/day (I raised fat to keep calories the same) there is 52g glucose created and my blood glucose levels only rise 15 points before dropping back to the average resting value.

What is interesting is that the drop in protein from 150g/day to 90g/day is a 40% drop. The "calculated" drop in glucose manufactured from protein from 87g to 52g is a 40% drop.  The measured change in the rise of blood glucose directly after eating a meal from 25 points to 15 points is also a 40% drop - so all these numbers track exactly.

I keep very accurate records and measure my blood glucose every hour when I'm awake and every time I awaken during the night, and yes my fingers are shredded and painful but without doing this you'll never see these relationships.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 10:30:23 AM by lex_rooker » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2008, 07:05:55 AM »

"Taubes also stated that 58% of protein can be converted to glucose, but didn't say how or when this would happen.  If this is true, then too much protein in the diet could cause a rise in insulin thereby creating a-g-p and causing fat storage."

Lex, Thank you for doing this experiment and sharing the results with us.  It is very good to know.  I have long suspected that a portion of protein can be converted to glucose, but knew of no one that has tested the theory with such accuracy as you have. 
Thanks Again, Keep us posted on your results.
Jamie
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lex_rooker
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2008, 09:39:05 AM »

Hi Jamie,
Yes it was a surprise to me too, when I found that a portion of any and all protein eaten is converted to glucose.  This goes against the conventional wisdom, but I suppose if you and I were "conventional" we wouldn't be members of cutting edge forums like this!

BTW, I know two other people that have done similar experiments and they had the same results.  Both are women so it is clear that gender has nothing to do with it either.  I'm looking forward to my annual doctor's appointment in mid July.  I will have much information to share with the good doctor.

Lex 
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2008, 06:58:52 PM »

I posted some questions to Dr. Groves; to find peace of mind but I don't think that I will ever find that - life would become to boring? I am glad, that we have people like Lex - working on a plan and keeping things simple and clear. We must not fear life - but respect Smiley!


Hi Nicola

It is quite wrong that carbs are needed to metabilse fats. This was a mantra developed in the 19th century. There is no basis for it whatsoever. If there were, how would Maasai and Inuit live? They don't eat any plant material at all, and, while they may get a little from the meat and milk they eat (glycogen and lactose), that's a tiny amount compared to the much greater amounts of fat they eat.

On the brain's reliance on glucose:

In the past was the belief that the brain couldn’t function properly without glucose. However, a study published in May 2003 showed that the brain can use ketones made from fats just as other normal cells do.[1] It was also shown nearly 70 years ago that ATP is delivered from the liver to the brain by red blood cells.[2] So there is absolutely no need to worry about the brain being starved of energy if we cut carbohydrates out of the diet.

References

1.     Takenaka T, et al. Fatty acids as an energy source for the operation of axoplasmic transport. Brain Res 2003; 972, 1-2: 38-43.
2.     Hockerts T, Hingerty D. Medizinische 1937; 289. Cited by Werner E. Mschr f Kinderheilk 1960; 1: 5.

Ketosis is not defined by ketone bodies found in urine; that is ketonuria. Ketosis is a condition where there are raised levels of ketone bodies (acetone, acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyrate) in body tissues. Ketone bodies are formed naturally from the breakdown of fats. As the calorific value of my diet is about 75% fat, I must be 'in ketosis'. The fact that I have one piece of fruit a day is not relevant.
 
Regards
 
Barry
Author: Natural Health and Weight Loss
Co-producer: Be Slim Without Dieting (Video / DVD)
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk
http://www.diabetes-diet.org.uk
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.org.uk

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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2008, 11:57:38 PM »

Nicola,
I have no quarrel with Dr Groves and his assertion that he is in ketosis.  My original post on the Saturated Fat Forum was just to point out that Dr Groves definition and Mary's definition of ketosis are different so you can't compare them.  Which one is correct?  Who knows - I certainly don't.  The best I can do is monitor the way I feel and adjust things accordingly.  If I find that something isn't going as well as expected then I'll make a change just as I found that I seemed to do better with some salt added to my diet.  Doing what works best for me is more important to me than following some strict dietary rules made by someone who doesn't really know any more about diet than I do. 

Mary, Kata, and I are doing experiments where we collect a lot of actual data (bg, ketones, etc) which we try to analyze to come to a reasonable conclusion.  We also make changes very slowly so that we have time to observe the more long term effects of a change - often weeks or months.  Most people just go by how they feel when they get up in the morning and have no actual data to back up what they say.  This is not to imply that Dr Goves falls into this category.  He is a professional and has many years of experience so I have no reason to doubt what he says.  I just have to know what his definition of the various terms he uses are before I can understand his point of view verses another person's point of view.  Also, you will find Dr Goves, (like Mary and Kata) is very consistent with his recommendations and advice.  Compare this to AV who changes his mind on things more often than I change my socks.

Hope this helps,

lex 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 12:03:43 AM by lex_rooker » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 12:14:09 AM »

Summary of Lex’s Experiment After 2 Weeks

Baseline diet was 68%Fat/32%Protein (145gF/145gP) all from animal sources and followed for 2 years.  Diet changed to 80%Fat/20%Protein (195gF/90gP) from the same animal sources. Organ meats comprised approximately 20% of diet and any Carbohydrates would come from that source.  No supplements other than approximately 1g of salt added to food per day.  Only one meal is eaten in the late afternoon.  Food portions were adjusted to keep Calories consistent at approximately 2,000 per day.

                             68%F/32%P      80%F/20%P
                               Baseline            14 Days

BG Daily Avg                 106                  88
BG Hi/Low Range          90/120             75/105
BG rise after meal           25                   15
Urine Ketones              0-Trace            Mod/Lg
Resting Heart Rt            58                    68
Weight                        162                  159
BMI                            21.4                 21.0
%Body Fat(calipers)     11.09                10.77


Obviously the duration of the change is very short at 2 weeks so many of the measurements are quite dynamic where the baseline readings were very stable.

Average BG has dropped about 15 points.
Hi/Low daily BG range has dropped a corresponding 15 points
Ketones have risen dramatically from less than trace to large
Resting heart rate has also increased by 10 BPM
Small drop in weight and BMI as well as body fat.

Ketones stay consistently high and usually measure Large but will occasionally drop to Moderate sometime during the day.

Baseline BG curve was very consistent, rising after my daily meal to a maximum of about 120 then dropping to 106 for many hours before dropping to minimum low 90s just before next meal,

Current BG curve is very dynamic.  BG rises to a maximum of 105 or so after meal, then drops slowly through the night to a minimum usually in the mid to high 70s in the early morning, then rises and fluctuates between the mid 80s to low 90s throughout the day and then the process starts over again.

I eat at the same time every day and the high BG reading about 3 hours after my meal is consistently 15 points above BG reading taken just prior to eating the meal.  The reading before the meal seems to vary between 80 and 90 so BG tops out between 95 and 105.

Baseline BG rise measured 3 hours after the meal was 25 points.  The reading before the meal was usually between 90 and 95 so BG topped out between 115 and 120.

Comments would be greatly appreciated,

Lex
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 07:17:47 AM »

Summary of Lex’s Experiment After 2 Weeks
[snip]

Resting Heart Rt            58                    68

[snip]

Resting heart rate has also increased by 10 BPM
Small drop in weight and BMI as well as body fat.

[snip]


Hi Lex,

I hope you won't mind me quoting you in snippets as I have.  This resting heart rate rising has me intrigued.  Both numbers are nicely low, but I wonder if you feel any different with the higher RHR.  And then I wonder what your blood pressure is and how that has changed.  Do you have a cuff?  If not, I think you should get one or get it checked every few months or something.

Otherwise, I am fascinated by your report and consider the higher fat to be the answer to great health.

Oh, one more question: What is your activity level like?  I may have asked this before, but I won't assume anything.  Please include your basic exercise plan if you have one.

I will be reading your replies.  My sister is visiting for the first time in over a decade, so I may not be as quick to answer in the coming week or so.  However, I will exchange with you when I can and I thank you for reporting on these changes in diet and the resulting physiological changes.  Good stuff!


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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 10:35:34 AM »

Satya,

I understand from others that have converted to a very high fat diet, that the rise in heart rate is temporary.  The theory is that I'm dumping large amounts of fatty acids in the blood that weren't there when eating at the lower fat level.  The body will treat this as a windfall (just killed a woolly mammoth and have lots to eat for a few weeks then it's back to famine again) so it doesn't create the hormones to keep everything under control especially since high fat is not life threatening like high glucose is.  After a few weeks of high fat levels in the blood, the body will start to manage it better and the heart rate will return to its previous level and sometimes lower. They say the heart responds this way because fatty acids are the heart's primary fuel.   The higher heart rate does not bother me but I did notice it.

I don't exercise for the sake of exercise.  I do walk a good bit but again not exclusively for exercise.  It's just that I'd rather walk to the market, postoffice, bank, etc when I have the time.  I don't dawdle but then it's far from a power walk.  It's 1 mile to the nearest market and the postoffice is two miles away, therefore when I walk it's between 2 and 4 miles round trip.  I do this between 1 and 3 times per week.

When I started this dietary adventure 5 years ago my BP had crept up to 145/95.  For the past 3 years or so eating a paleo style diet my BP has stabilized around 110/70 give or take a few points.  I'll keep an eye on it and if I see any changes I'll add this to my "monitor" list.

Lex
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 01:12:42 PM by Craig » Logged
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