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Author Topic: How many carbs do you need?  (Read 2311 times)
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Kristelle
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« Reply #80 on: November 07, 2008, 09:26:36 PM »

The brain can and does run on ketones, more efficiently, might I add. It cannot run on fatty acids because they are unable to cross the blood-brain barrier.
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wodgina6722
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« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2008, 10:42:20 PM »

How many carbs would you eat before/after a hard 2 hour long race Igi?
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igibike
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« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2008, 11:02:17 PM »

Yes, I rode lex journal and made some consideration, indeed I realized that I was wrong or misunderstood something...

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« Reply #83 on: November 07, 2008, 11:11:18 PM »

How many carbs would you eat before/after a hard 2 hour long race Igi?

Sorry Andrew, but I'm not a good quantifier, I mosly do it empyrical and by instinct...

Anyway, I can tell you that:

1) It modstly depends on how adapted you are on running on fats (I recently knew a cyclists that needs about 100 g of carbs per hour, he is a very tough rider and aranks very well)
2) It depends on what exertion level you are going to do it (I'm not expert in running races, better on bike's)
3) Are you still doing zerocarb ?
4) What are your past experiences on carbo load/glycogen restore ?
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Luigi
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« Reply #84 on: November 07, 2008, 11:43:07 PM »

If I were you, Andrew, I would start carbo load 1 or 2 day before the event by introducing potoes and/or rice (or whatever carbo food you feel comfortable with). The time depending on your ability to metabolise corbos (it may take 2 day with small portions or 1 day with grater portions).

This is in order to assure you glycogen stores are full.
Be sure to be weel hydrated before the event start.
During the event you may use snacks, sport foods or simply fruits (I feel good with bananas) and drink (If the weatheer is very hot, you may put some salt in you drink in order to avoid hyponatremia).

After the event I use Friel/Cordains approach:
priority is recovery (repleniment of glycogen stores and rebuild of damaged muscle)
Immediately after (30 minutes window): easy digestable sources of glucose (honey is great, fruits, or whatever you like), and protein (or better amminoacids). Carbo to protein ratio is 4:1. The key here is to ingest nutrients that has not to be processed by the digestive system, not to stress the body anymore.
Then, the glycogen replenish takes place for a time span that is as long as the race duration (2 hors window for a 2 hour race) you can keep on eating carbs within your meals.

This is what I believe is right to manage races and hard workouts, this is what I (and others) do.
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« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2008, 06:35:31 AM »

If I were you, Andrew, I would start carbo load 1 or 2 day before the event by introducing potoes and/or rice (or whatever carbo food you feel comfortable with). The time depending on your ability to metabolise corbos (it may take 2 day with small portions or 1 day with grater portions).

This is in order to assure you glycogen stores are full.
Be sure to be weel hydrated before the event start.
During the event you may use snacks, sport foods or simply fruits (I feel good with bananas) and drink (If the weatheer is very hot, you may put some salt in you drink in order to avoid hyponatremia).

After the event I use Friel/Cordains approach:
priority is recovery (repleniment of glycogen stores and rebuild of damaged muscle)
Immediately after (30 minutes window): easy digestable sources of glucose (honey is great, fruits, or whatever you like), and protein (or better amminoacids). Carbo to protein ratio is 4:1. The key here is to ingest nutrients that has not to be processed by the digestive system, not to stress the body anymore.
Then, the glycogen replenish takes place for a time span that is as long as the race duration (2 hors window for a 2 hour race) you can keep on eating carbs within your meals.

This is what I believe is right to manage races and hard workouts, this is what I (and others) do.

Thanks.I will try 100 grams a day for 2 days before and recover with carbs. I'll take your advice and see how I go.

Ok well I've already run the race on zero carb and I was running a a high anaerobic level for 1 hour and 50 minutes. The race was incredibly tough. The winner is an international professional athlete did 14km in 75 minutes which goes to show how tough the course was.

I like the Idea of being able to run this type of event aerobically but wonder if that is ever possible or how long it would take to be able to do this. To run this event aerobically it would of taken me 3+ hours!

I felt terrible during the race and craved carbs about half way through. I recovered very badly and could not think for about 20 minutes after the event. My brain had zero energy.

I will start to carbo load next time before I do a hard session. But I would also like to be able to run on fatty acids http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp...I'm torn and will have to try both.


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Nicola
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« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2008, 10:07:16 PM »

Why don't you get in touch with "the bear"; he lives in Australia!

the-bear@thebear.org
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« Reply #87 on: November 08, 2008, 10:48:32 PM »

Thanks.I will try 100 grams a day for 2 days before and recover with carbs. I'll take your advice and see how I go.

Ok well I've already run the race on zero carb and I was running a a high anaerobic level for 1 hour and 50 minutes. The race was incredibly tough. The winner is an international professional athlete did 14km in 75 minutes which goes to show how tough the course was.

I like the Idea of being able to run this type of event aerobically but wonder if that is ever possible or how long it would take to be able to do this. To run this event aerobically it would of taken me 3+ hours!

I felt terrible during the race and craved carbs about half way through. I recovered very badly and could not think for about 20 minutes after the event. My brain had zero energy.

I will start to carbo load next time before I do a hard session. But I would also like to be able to run on fatty acids http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp...I'm torn and will have to try both.




Thank you very very much for this testimonial, Andrew.
This is the last piece of the puzzle: the proof that, even if one is ketoadapted (if my memory is good you are) it is impossible to practice strenuous physical activity (and a good recovery) on zerocarb.

I'm really sorry for all of the pure carnivores, but for people having athletic ambitions zerocarb is unpracticable. And Andrew's experience is another proof.

According to me even very low carb, without due recherge, is like a suicide when it comes to heavy physical activity.
Just to let you know, last Thursday, in the gym, I felt very good, I made my workout heavy workout, ùi felt good during it and it seemed like I could push it more, but I didn't...
I made no recharge after wo, and kept on very low carbing...

Get what...

I still didn't recover, I have such a pain in my legs that barely can walk, I look like a paralytic.

Never happened in this way with recharges.

Re the bear:
I tried to contact him but....
you can make you conclusions reading his reply, wich I posted.

Anyway...
Good luck for the race !!! Wink Wink Wink Wink
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Luigi
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« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2008, 07:14:12 AM »

Why don't you get in touch with "the bear"; he lives in Australia!

the-bear@thebear.org

'The bear' doesn't do strenuous non paleo exercise and I don't feel like being insulted either...

I would like to run on fatty acids to be honest as it makes sense but I'm not sure I will ever be able to do it. You have to run/cycle so slowly to keep in your aerobic zone that I may as well just walk. Supposedly with training you can run on fatty acids but an event which I competed in on the weekend my heart rate would of been between 180-210+ bpm

Halfway through the race my stomach was rumbling and I wanted food (even though I was running my heart out) this tells me I needed some quick fuel to resupply glycogen to my muscles. All tho pro's took on carbs at around this point but I kept running.

Hey Igi I think there are a few zero carb athletes on 'Charles's' forum. I wonder how they go? I love the idea of competing well on just meat and fat but I see it's practical to take on carbs during a long race.
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igibike
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« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2008, 06:06:08 PM »

'The bear' doesn't do strenuous non paleo exercise and I don't feel like being insulted either...

I would like to run on fatty acids to be honest as it makes sense but I'm not sure I will ever be able to do it. You have to run/cycle so slowly to keep in your aerobic zone that I may as well just walk. Supposedly with training you can run on fatty acids but an event which I competed in on the weekend my heart rate would of been between 180-210+ bpm

Halfway through the race my stomach was rumbling and I wanted food (even though I was running my heart out) this tells me I needed some quick fuel to resupply glycogen to my muscles. All tho pro's took on carbs at around this point but I kept running.

Hey Igi I think there are a few zero carb athletes on 'Charles's' forum. I wonder how they go? I love the idea of competing well on just meat and fat but I see it's practical to take on carbs during a long race.

I believe that race/train strenuously for a long duration only on fats is pure utopy.
Those situation are non physiological, so they have to be treated accordingly.

Andrew, I don't know "Charles's forum" can you post a link ?
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Luigi
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