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Author Topic: How many carbs do you need?  (Read 2313 times)
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JustAnotherExplorer
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« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2008, 07:23:49 PM »

http://www.zerocarbage.com/
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igibike
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« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2008, 06:42:27 PM »

I took a look at the forum/blog.

Weel, in my opinion the situation is as usual: Charles as well, seems to train 1 every 3-4 days.
Another proof that on ZC recovery is so longer.

Again, I believe that to train consistently some carbs are needed, the amount depending on training volume.
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« Reply #92 on: November 14, 2008, 12:16:31 AM »

I took a look at the forum/blog.

Weel, in my opinion the situation is as usual: Charles as well, seems to train 1 every 3-4 days.
Another proof that on ZC recovery is so longer.

Again, I believe that to train consistently some carbs are needed, the amount depending on training volume.
While Charles does only run twice per week, he also lifts weights twice per week.  He does acknowledge more recovery time is required, but he also firmly believes that running twice per week is all that is necessary.  Training smarter, not harder.  Charles always finishes in the top 10-15% in his races.  And he usually runs in races that have several thousand runners.  Not bad, I'd say.
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Raw Kyle
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« Reply #93 on: November 14, 2008, 12:39:04 AM »

While Charles does only run twice per week, he also lifts weights twice per week.  He does acknowledge more recovery time is required, but he also firmly believes that running twice per week is all that is necessary.  Training smarter, not harder.  Charles always finishes in the top 10-15% in his races.  And he usually runs in races that have several thousand runners.  Not bad, I'd say.

What about an athlete in a sport like wrestling, very anaerobic? Has anyone ever tried something like that on zero carb? My experience has been that even highly trained athletes fatigue (aerobically) more in 5 or 10 minutes of something like that than hours of running or biking, and you're muscles start to weaken (anaerobically) in a matter of less than a minute if you're constantly pushing against an immovable object (wrestling).
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« Reply #94 on: November 14, 2008, 01:24:58 AM »

What about an athlete in a sport like wrestling, very anaerobic? Has anyone ever tried something like that on zero carb? My experience has been that even highly trained athletes fatigue (aerobically) more in 5 or 10 minutes of something like that than hours of running or biking, and you're muscles start to weaken (anaerobically) in a matter of less than a minute if you're constantly pushing against an immovable object (wrestling).
Like isometrics?
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« Reply #95 on: November 14, 2008, 01:53:15 PM »

I did almost zero carbs for 4-6 weeks.  No more than 5-15 grams a day, which is basically a few strawberries and maybe a small tomato.  Some days I did no carbs at all.  I lift 3-5 days a week, sprints usually once a week, and I play D-line in IM football.  When I do any type of running I make sure to punctuate at regular intervals with anaerobic exercise. 

It worked out okay at first.  I sort of started right after a brutal work-out.  The next couple days I was constantly hungy, eating (per day) 20-25 eggs, at least 2 lbs of beef, some coconut-oil, and just a very few carbs.  I gained tremendously in a short 3 days.  The results propelled me to give zero carb a try.

But after a couple weeks I started to notice some negative changes.  First off, my breath began to smell bad.  Then I noticed I wasn't gaining really anymore in the gym, and in fact, tended to be losing strength and began to shorten my workouts.  After a few weeks my stomach felt like it was beginning to 'back up', though I was not yet in pain. 

I gave work-outs a rest for a few days, but came home on day 3 feeling terrible.  No fever (yet) but my whole digestive system felt clogged and body achy.  I had the biggest craving for sugars, so I ate alot of raw honey, rasperries, coconut oil, and a few eggs.  I immediately began to feel better (alot like the feeling after a good meal after a big workout).  I was getting sleepy, and ultimately had fever most of the night.  I had some diahhrea, and woke up 3 times to use the crapper, each time feeling better.  By morning I felt MUCH better.  No more fever, and no more diahhrea, though the bowl issues did take a couple weeks to completely clear up.  I still was on very low carb for the next 2 weeks, tho not quite as low, and felt better but still not tip top.

Earlier I mentioned bad breath.  About a week after that night, I went to the dentist (regular checkup), and for the first time in my life, I had a cavity.  In fact, I had 3 black spots on my back molars.   

Near the end of all this, I read a book [The Schwarzbein Principle II] which analyzes diet almost solely from the perspective of the endocrine(glandular) system.  While I disagree w/ much of what she recoommends (alot isn't paleo based), she convinced me that I needed more carbs.  I started eating a bell pepper/tomato/mushroom/peppers/spinach w/ my daily 1.5-2 lb of beef, some papaya/berries/coconut water/etc.  Immediately my breath got better, and despite what the dentist said is possible, the 3 black spots on my teeth began to shrink.  I only have 1 left, and it is rather small. 

I probably eat now between 70-120 grams of carbs/day.  I most definitely will eat a papaya or berries before a workout, and after most 2 hour lifting sessions (which I can regularly do nowadays) I will drink a strawberry/raw egg/honey/goats milk shake for recovery.  I believe my body is probably getting most of its energy from fats, but using carbs during strenuous exercise. 

I'm all about going with what works, and for myself, I have proven that zero carbs doesn't work.  Also, we have genetics to consider.  If you are Inuit or Northern European, it is likely you might be able to get away with fewer carbs.  If your heritage is from more southern latitudes (like the 1/2 Mexican in me), the simple fact is berries taste good, coconut water tastes good, fruit/herbs taste good.  We would definitely have eaten them during our evolutionary history, in addition to bugs which can contain quite a few carbs.  As an aside, I would imagine women to get along better with a few more carbs than men, as they would likely have been the 'gatherers' eating more foraging type foods - just a thought.

       
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 02:14:16 PM by Guittarman03 » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: November 15, 2008, 12:25:51 AM »

has anyone seen the persistence hunting video that David Attenburough narrated?

There is hunter gatherers in Africa deserts that do persistence hunting. They find a herd, then pick out the one with the biggest antlers/horns, because it will tire faster. Then they follow it in a persistence hunt. Soon they send off there fastest runner by himself. He is equipped with a spear on his back, and a container filled with water to rehydrate. He follows it for a long time with a slow jog. The animal tries to rest under trees for shade because of the intense heat of the desert.  But soon has to run again because the man follows. The mans ability to sweat becomes handy.The man, being bipedal is more suited for endurance running, than the four legged animal. Soon the animal collapses due to exhaustion. He then spears it, and does a little ceremony with sand.

It would be interesting to see exactly what these people consume. I think it varies from mostly plants, to mostly animal foods. In the dry season when nuts run out, meat becomes the most important food.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 12:29:28 AM by Sully » Logged

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« Reply #97 on: November 16, 2008, 03:15:19 AM »

Like isometrics?

No, like wrestling. Actually my sports are Brazilian jiu jit su and mixed martial arts but most people aren't too familiar with them.
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igibike
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« Reply #98 on: November 18, 2008, 09:33:45 PM »

While Charles does only run twice per week, he also lifts weights twice per week.  He does acknowledge more recovery time is required, but he also firmly believes that running twice per week is all that is necessary.  Training smarter, not harder.  Charles always finishes in the top 10-15% in his races.  And he usually runs in races that have several thousand runners.  Not bad, I'd say.

In the races I got involved so far I got similar results (10-15% in the rank). I try to train smart as well. So the difficult management of a zero carb (for different reasons) keeps me off.

I did almost zero carbs for 4-6 weeks.  No more than 5-15 grams a day, which is basically a few strawberries and maybe a small tomato.  Some days I did no carbs at all.  I lift 3-5 days a week, sprints usually once a week, and I play D-line in IM football.  When I do any type of running I make sure to punctuate at regular intervals with anaerobic exercise. 

It worked out okay at first.  I sort of started right after a brutal work-out.  The next couple days I was constantly hungy, eating (per day) 20-25 eggs, at least 2 lbs of beef, some coconut-oil, and just a very few carbs.  I gained tremendously in a short 3 days.  The results propelled me to give zero carb a try.

But after a couple weeks I started to notice some negative changes.  First off, my breath began to smell bad.  Then I noticed I wasn't gaining really anymore in the gym, and in fact, tended to be losing strength and began to shorten my workouts.  After a few weeks my stomach felt like it was beginning to 'back up', though I was not yet in pain. 

I gave work-outs a rest for a few days, but came home on day 3 feeling terrible.  No fever (yet) but my whole digestive system felt clogged and body achy.  I had the biggest craving for sugars, so I ate alot of raw honey, rasperries, coconut oil, and a few eggs.  I immediately began to feel better (alot like the feeling after a good meal after a big workout).  I was getting sleepy, and ultimately had fever most of the night.  I had some diahhrea, and woke up 3 times to use the crapper, each time feeling better.  By morning I felt MUCH better.  No more fever, and no more diahhrea, though the bowl issues did take a couple weeks to completely clear up.  I still was on very low carb for the next 2 weeks, tho not quite as low, and felt better but still not tip top.

Earlier I mentioned bad breath.  About a week after that night, I went to the dentist (regular checkup), and for the first time in my life, I had a cavity.  In fact, I had 3 black spots on my back molars.   

Near the end of all this, I read a book [The Schwarzbein Principle II] which analyzes diet almost solely from the perspective of the endocrine(glandular) system.  While I disagree w/ much of what she recoommends (alot isn't paleo based), she convinced me that I needed more carbs.  I started eating a bell pepper/tomato/mushroom/peppers/spinach w/ my daily 1.5-2 lb of beef, some papaya/berries/coconut water/etc.  Immediately my breath got better, and despite what the dentist said is possible, the 3 black spots on my teeth began to shrink.  I only have 1 left, and it is rather small. 

I probably eat now between 70-120 grams of carbs/day.  I most definitely will eat a papaya or berries before a workout, and after most 2 hour lifting sessions (which I can regularly do nowadays) I will drink a strawberry/raw egg/honey/goats milk shake for recovery.  I believe my body is probably getting most of its energy from fats, but using carbs during strenuous exercise. 

I'm all about going with what works, and for myself, I have proven that zero carbs doesn't work.  Also, we have genetics to consider.  If you are Inuit or Northern European, it is likely you might be able to get away with fewer carbs.  If your heritage is from more southern latitudes (like the 1/2 Mexican in me), the simple fact is berries taste good, coconut water tastes good, fruit/herbs taste good.  We would definitely have eaten them during our evolutionary history, in addition to bugs which can contain quite a few carbs.  As an aside, I would imagine women to get along better with a few more carbs than men, as they would likely have been the 'gatherers' eating more foraging type foods - just a thought.

       

Similar result keeping carb below a certain level, so I made the same conclusions as guittarman. As far as I know  my descendance is from italian farmers.

Kyle, I guess the reason muscles fatigue quicker anaerobically is that after ATP depletion, energy is needed to resithetise it.
Resithesys may happen aerobically (slower, requires oxygen to burn fat) o anaerobically (faster, oxygen not required). Performing anaerobically we quick fall in oxygen debt, and that kiks anaerobical glucose burning. But glucose/glycogen stores are limeted, that's why we stop earlier.
That's what I know and so far what I experienced to be true.
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Luigi
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« Reply #99 on: November 18, 2008, 09:55:15 PM »

I know about that, my question is that would a low carb diet (or no carb) cause you to be able to rebuild your glucose stores faster, or perhaps use a different fuel altogether, or are we looking at a situation where low carb gives you good long term energy but not short anaerobic energy as good as moderate to high carbs? It seems like most agree that on low carb the anaerobic capacity goes down and aerobic capacity goes up, and this goes along with the idea of persistence hunters chasing down prey and eating only animals.
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