|
carnivore
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2010, 06:01:39 AM » |
|
ZC was responsible for that, not protein per se.
It's not dangerous to eat more protein, but if you are on ZC it could be very unhealthy.
If you eat healthy fruits, some vegs, honey that's not the issue. In general of course, because there are some individuals that could be more prone to kidney problems.
Why excess protein on a ZC is unhealthy and not dangerous on an omnivore diet ? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
TylerDurden
|
|
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2010, 06:04:22 AM » |
|
Why excess protein on a ZC is unhealthy and not dangerous on an omnivore diet ?
He's talking about rabbit-starvation, where too much protein and not enough fats can lead to those symptoms. There was a scandal involving liquid protein diets some decades back in which people died from excess protein. Rabbit-starvation is, of course, not an issue with a raw-omnivorous diet as carbs or fats can remove the condition. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"We forfeit three-quarters of ourselves in order to be like other people."
Arthur Schopenhauer
|
|
|
|
carnivore
|
|
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2010, 06:41:06 AM » |
|
He's talking about rabbit-starvation, where too much protein and not enough fats can lead to those symptoms. There was a scandal involving liquid protein diets some decades back in which people died from excess protein. Rabbit-starvation is, of course, not an issue with a raw-omnivorous diet as carbs or fats can remove the condition.
Protein in excess is detrimental, with or without carbs! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
TylerDurden
|
|
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2010, 07:02:15 AM » |
|
Protein in excess is detrimental, with or without carbs!
Not so sure re this. I mean isn't it rather difficult to overdose on protein on a raw or even cooked-palaeodiet? I mean if one was eating a highly processed liquid protein diet, it might be an issue, but on a rawpalaeodiet, one wouldn't have the usual hunger-pangs that one gets on processed food diets, so it would be very difficult to overdose on protein. Certainly, I do find some of the anti-protein people to be overly obsessive re limits; I mean 100g of protein as a maximum upper limit per day is ridiculous. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"We forfeit three-quarters of ourselves in order to be like other people."
Arthur Schopenhauer
|
|
|
|
Hannibal
|
|
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2010, 07:33:44 AM » |
|
Protein in excess is detrimental, with or without carbs!
But without carbs you've got to eat more protein. On low-carb omnivorous diet you don't need to eat so much protein. It's simple. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land
|
|
|
|
carnivore
|
|
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2010, 08:06:28 AM » |
|
But without carbs you've got to eat more protein. On low-carb omnivorous diet you don't need to eat so much protein. It's simple.
It is why any extreme diet where one macronutrient is eliminated (like ZC, frutarian, ...) are very dangerous! We need a balance of protein/fat/carbs. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Hannibal
|
|
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2010, 08:14:47 AM » |
|
It is why any extreme diet where one macronutrient is eliminated (like ZC, frutarian, ...) are very dangerous!
We need a balance of protein/fat/carbs. That's very true. Protein, fat and carbs are equally important - that's the biochemical fact. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land
|
|
|
|
pc701
|
|
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2010, 01:20:34 AM » |
|
I came to the conclusion that it's not too much protein that stresses the kidneys but undigested protein. So if one has dark circles and edema like I had, it's likely your not digesting the proteins well enough. http://www.luckinlove.com/kidney.htm |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
MrBBQ
|
|
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2010, 08:12:11 AM » |
|
I've been self-experimenting these last couple of weeks and I'd agree with carnivore/Hannibal that ratio seems to be everything.
I can say this because instead of relying on fruits for my carbohydrates, I've been eating cooked (boiled/steamed) starches in quite large quantities, PLUS along with more carbs, I've been increasing my meat+fat content to a much greater extent than before, which has been less problematic for me than meat+fat+fruit.
I've also been adding lightly cooked vegetables for variety, to make more "square" meals. Typically, I warm my meat and fat in a bain marie/porringer, which I find much more preferable to just room-temp or cold meat.
With just the addition of cooked starches, my metabolism and mood seems to be very much more favourable (bowel movements are also really regular as opposed to constipation), plus my body just likes/tolerates more meat+fat, which is the ultimate objective - to be able to eat optimal amounts of meat+fat with horrible. Also, I'm consuming an added serving of organ meats (usually dehydrated as a snack food), which I'm readily tolerating.
Apparently, because of being able to eat more meat+fat on account of eating more dense carbs that don't erode my tooth enamel (like fruits), body composition is improving with more subcutaneous adipose tissue laid down, plus my eyes have more shine and hair has stopped falling so much.
My conclusion is that if we've developed large salivary amylase production, surely the human metabolism is systemically geared to a reasonable starch intake. Thankfully, starches are allowing me to eat more meat+fat without problematic consequences.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...
|
|
|
|
Paleo Donk
|
|
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2010, 08:32:19 AM » |
|
Glad to hear that your experimenting with starches is going well. The one big difference between starches and fruit that I've noticed is that I always had something within me telling to stop eating them fairly soon, but never really with fruit. There are obviously a number of reasons for this. Starches are more calorie dense, don't taste as good, might be poisoning my body, etc.. but it could be because of the high fructose content in modern fruits make them so addictive and unable for my body to know when its had enough. Aren't roots and tubers a staple for many, past and present, hunter gatherer tribes? Much more so than fruits, especially in the African savannas? I know I've read some theories that I don't believe that state we turned to these calorie dense tubers to get enough fuel for our large brains. Also, are modern tubers closer in therm of nutrient content to paleolithic tubers as compared to fruit? I think wild tubers do have quite a bit of anti-nutrients that require cooking to eliminate and is stated as one of the reasons why we turned to cooking in the first place. hmmm..just found this - http://www.springerlink.com/content/q30v451728120085/Apparently cooking does not deactivate glycoalkaloids that are harmful (even death is possible) if consumed in high-enough quantities. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 08:55:50 AM by Paleo Donk »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
