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aariel
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« on: September 29, 2009, 06:38:05 PM » |
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Aren't fruit diets bad because of all the fructose?
There are good studies indicating that high fructose intake causes health problems.
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Cthulhu
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2009, 05:16:35 PM » |
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Those studies that you talk about use very high levels of fructose (at least from all of the ones I have read). All of the studies that I have read also use isolated, unnatural, refined/crystalline fructose, which IS actually different than natural fruit sugar. In fact, fruit sugar, in it's natural form, should really be called laevulose (NOT fructose), where it is bound to other chemical compounds, canceling out any 'negative' qualities. When you isolate a chemical outside of it's natural biochemical sequence, it then becomes more like a drug, not a food, to the human body because the dependent qualities are lost. For example, we all know that benzoylmethylecgonine (cocaine) is a highly addictive substance. But why? Benzoylmethylecgonine is the alkaloid that is derived from coca leaves. This alkaloid is what makes the drug highly addictive. However, in the coca plant itself, this alkaloid is in it's natural state, where the addictive qualities are canceled out by other chemical compounds, therefore it is not recognized by your body as a drug like cocaine is. Go ahead, chew on some coca leaves. It's like drinking coffee and may southern American countries do that legally. It's nothing like loading up on cocaine. This is one of the most overlooked subjects in biochemistry and nutrition. People forget that not all harmful isolated chemicals are harmful in their original form of natural biochemical sequence. So, to say that laevulose (fruit sugar) is the same exact thing as highly refined, isolated, crystalline fructose would be wrong. That would be like saying cocaine is the same thing as coca or that heroine is the same thing as those poppy-seeds on top of that bagel in the market. Also, fruit is not the major source of fructose (laevulose) in the normal diet. Most people don't get much of it in it's natural form. In fact, only certain fruits are high in laevulose, while others are relatively low. Here is a list of foods that contain fructose (natural and refined), in descending order:
• High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) • Table Sugar, which is a 50:50 combination of glucose and fructose • Brown Sugar • Maple Sugar • Cane Sugar • Molasses • Honey • Concentrated Fruit Juice • Fruits • Vegetables
As you can see, fruits and vegetables are at the very bottom. Now factor in the simple fact that this is laevulose, not refined, isolated, crystalline fructose. Completely different than HFCS in both quantity and biochemical sequence. There is also another important fact that the "all sugar is created equal" crowed misses: Unlike glucose, laevulose is an insulin-independent monosachharide. In a healthy person, fruit does not spike blood sugar violently, like table sugar does. So, in other words, stay away from refined, man-made fructose, but fruit in it's natural form is fine. I think one of the most important thing some raw paleo/meat eaters often overlook is the need for antioxidants in todays environment.
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 05:25:12 PM by Cthulhu »
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van
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2009, 07:52:58 PM » |
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Fruit and vegetables; at the bottom of the list. Do you know what percentage of calories of the fruits you eat is from fructose?
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Cthulhu
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2009, 08:22:32 PM » |
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Fruit and vegetables; at the bottom of the list. Do you know what percentage of calories of the fruits you eat is from fructose?
Well, I am a natural bodybuilder/powerlifter, so I do not do zero carb dies. I eat about 3500-3800 calories a day just to maintain my LBM and fitness levels (I lift 5 days a week). Of the 3500-3800 calories that I consume, about 30% come from protein, 40% come from fat (mostly animal fat, filled in with some avocado and coconut fat), and 30% come from carbs. Sometimes my carb intake will go as high as 35-40% on special days or events, but it usually stays around the lower/moderate range (which is 30% or less). My main carb source is very simple: wild, raw honey and organic (mostly wild crafted/organic) fruit. I usually eat my raw honey post-workout or right before lifting weights only. The raw honey for my post-workout shake/meal is needed for an insulin spike in order to pull my body out of a catabolic state (lifting weights is catabolic). I try to make this low fat, high carb shake/meal. So, for example, if I am consuming 3500 calories, with the macronutrient ratios adjusted for above, then 30% of my calories from carbohydrates would equal about 1050 calories. So, one serving of the raw honey that I eat contains about 60 calories and I try to aim for at least a few hundred grams of carbs for an insulin spike, so I'd say about 480 calories come from honey and then a few hundred more from wild bananas and/or berries, in conjunction with a raw lean protein source. Usually, when I am in a rush, I just throw in a bunch of organic eggs and blend them up with honey and fruit and that is enough for my muscles to prevent catabolism.
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 08:37:58 PM by Cthulhu »
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aariel
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2009, 09:27:40 PM » |
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Those studies that you talk about use very high levels of fructose (at least from all of the ones I have read). All of the studies that I have read also use isolated, unnatural, refined/crystalline fructose, which IS actually different than natural fruit sugar. In fact, fruit sugar, in it's natural form, should really be called laevulose (NOT fructose), where it is bound to other chemical compounds, canceling out any 'negative' qualities. When you isolate a chemical outside of it's natural biochemical sequence, it then becomes more like a drug, not a food, to the human body because the dependent qualities are lost. For example, we all know that benzoylmethylecgonine (cocaine) is a highly addictive substance. But why? Benzoylmethylecgonine is the alkaloid that is derived from coca leaves. This alkaloid is what makes the drug highly addictive. However, in the coca plant itself, this alkaloid is in it's natural state, where the addictive qualities are canceled out by other chemical compounds, therefore it is not recognized by your body as a drug like cocaine is. Go ahead, chew on some coca leaves. It's like drinking coffee and may southern American countries do that legally. It's nothing like loading up on cocaine. This is one of the most overlooked subjects in biochemistry and nutrition. People forget that not all harmful isolated chemicals are harmful in their original form of natural biochemical sequence. So, to say that laevulose (fruit sugar) is the same exact thing as highly refined, isolated, crystalline fructose would be wrong. That would be like saying cocaine is the same thing as coca or that heroine is the same thing as those poppy-seeds on top of that bagel in the market. Also, fruit is not the major source of fructose (laevulose) in the normal diet. Most people don't get much of it in it's natural form. In fact, only certain fruits are high in laevulose, while others are relatively low. Here is a list of foods that contain fructose (natural and refined), in descending order:
• High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) • Table Sugar, which is a 50:50 combination of glucose and fructose • Brown Sugar • Maple Sugar • Cane Sugar • Molasses • Honey • Concentrated Fruit Juice • Fruits • Vegetables
As you can see, fruits and vegetables are at the very bottom. Now factor in the simple fact that this is laevulose, not refined, isolated, crystalline fructose. Completely different than HFCS in both quantity and biochemical sequence. There is also another important fact that the "all sugar is created equal" crowed misses: Unlike glucose, laevulose is an insulin-independent monosachharide. In a healthy person, fruit does not spike blood sugar violently, like table sugar does. So, in other words, stay away from refined, man-made fructose, but fruit in it's natural form is fine. I think one of the most important thing some raw paleo/meat eaters often overlook is the need for antioxidants in todays environment.
I agree that reductionist principles in science often result in studies that have no relevancy in the real world. I've never seen a study comparing crystalline fructose with a diet containing an equivalent amount of bound fructose in the form of whole fruit--not that I've done an exhaustive search of the literature.
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carnivore
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2010, 04:47:17 AM » |
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tammy123
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2010, 10:16:43 AM » |
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As far as I know everything should be required in equally quantity and fructose is one of the very important source as it should not be taken too much, Only the required quantity which is necessary.
Thanks
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Hannibal
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 02:46:34 PM » |
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High fructose fruits and honeys should be rather limited. All sorts of berries, dark honeys have got a good glucose/fructose ratio. Plums, for example, are very good, because they've got a lot of glucose and only a little bit of fructose.
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Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat? Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land
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MrBBQ
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 03:19:53 PM » |
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I'm glad about this thread and especially the point about "laevulose" - I have never heard that reference before, but the fact that it implies appropriate, biological complexification by nature is refreshing to hear.
There is a lot of damning of (even naturally-occurring) fructose in many places (saying things like fructose glycates in the hepatic portal vein, and up to 10 times more than glucose), so this point about laevulose seems like some kind of vindication.
It's true that fructose/laevulose invokes glucagon release, isn't it (counter-balancing the insulin invocation by glucose)? So, glucagon vs insulin is a happy balance...
@Cthulhu: Do you find that the weak organic acids in fruits compromise your tooth enamel? Many fruitarians notice that (especially with unripe fruit) outside the context of RAF, teeth are destroyed. I minimise fruit/honey because of the organic acids, while I'm trying to find the path to tooth healing through RAF.
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When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...
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Inger
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 04:14:56 PM » |
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Have you seen this blogpost Mr. BBQ? I think it is great! I'm looking for tooth-healing too, after I hurt ed my teeths with too much nuts (raw omnivore). Now I know, nuts are really bad for your teeth.  And the good thing is, they can heal! Even if you have gotten cavities! http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/reversing-tooth-decay.htmlInger
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